The situation got out of hand

Interview/ G. Kishan Reddy, minister of state for home affairs

48-Kishan-Reddy G. Kishan Reddy | Sanjay Ahlawat

G. KISHAN REDDY handles crucial arms of the Union home ministry, such as the departments of internal security and of Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh affairs. The day after US President Donald Trump ended his India visit, the minister of state for home affairs spoke to THE WEEK on a host of issues, ranging from the riots in Delhi to the implications of the controversial Citizenship (Amendment) Act (CAA) and the situation in Jammu and Kashmir.

For two months, the protests were peaceful. Had we known that the situation would get out of hand, we could have taken steps like we did in Kashmir.

Excerpts from the exclusive interview.

The protests against the CAA have sparked off riots. What went wrong?

Ever since Prime Minister Narendra Modi formed government in 2014, there has been a campaign saying it is intolerant. So much so that even High Courts and the Supreme Court, at various points, have said that people have the right to protest and the right to freedom of speech. We have seen this in the Shaheen Bagh case recently, and in the protests in Jawaharlal Nehru University. The courts, especially the apex court, said the government should allow these protests.

The Delhi Police should have decided whether the protests can happen there [at Shaheen Bagh]. But the court had appointed its interlocutors, and they were going and talking [to protesters]. The Supreme Court’s involvement was already there.

So, we thought that, if people are protesting peacefully, then we should not object to it. That today or tomorrow, they will understand the truth. This is the reason why we never attempted to stop the Shaheen Bagh protests. There were anti-CAA protests across the country and the government did not try to stop them. Still, they have been calling us an intolerant government!

Who are calling the government intolerant?

Some intellectuals who did award wapsi and sat on dharnas; artists and actors gave statements. Some like Deepika Padukone went to [JNU] and met the students. If we are actually intolerant, why would we have allowed protests at Shaheen Bagh for two months? The public was inconvenienced—there were road closures—but still we did not try to stop the protests. It is a person’s right to protest, and tell the government what he thinks. In turn, it is our duty to explain our stand. But to throw stones at policemen, indulge in violence and open fire at the police are wrong.

Was the violence orchestrated?

It appears to be a deliberate attempt to create communal unrest by some organisations. The truth will come out in the investigations. The home ministry cannot conclusively say right now who was behind it. But why did the violence happen during US president’s visit?

When an international figure of Trump’s repute is visiting India, to sit on dharnas in front of him and indulge in violence is shameful. On the one hand, the prime minister was giving a great reception, working so hard to boost the image of the country and its economy. The people of Gujarat, the state government and Modi himself were working so hard to build the image of the country. And here, on the other hand, efforts were being made to damage the country’s reputation.

But why could you not foresee the situation going out of control?

When Article 370 was abrogated, the government did everything to maintain peace in Jammu and Kashmir. When we did that, we were criticised for arresting people, imposing Section 144 [of the Code of Criminal Procedure], shutting down the internet, and so on.

It is the responsibility of the government to maintain law and order. We do not like to detain political leaders. But it is done to ensure peace and harmony. If there were dharnas against abrogation of Article 370, I can understand because people have been fed a different narrative for the past 70 years. They have been told that, if the special status to the state goes away, their special rights will be affected. So we focused on Kashmir and ensured that no law and order situation occurred. But, during anti-CAA protests, we did not expect this kind of protest…. You cannot carry the national flag in one hand and a stone in the other. That is not the way.

Many BJP leaders gave hate speeches.

Whoever they are, it is wrong. Modi has said that such provocative statements will not be allowed. He has said so several times. The government even condemned the lynching incidents earlier. The [BJP] MP from Bhopal who had made unsavoury remarks against Mahatma Gandhi was barred from attending a parliamentary meeting. This is a government for sabka saath, sabka vikas and sabka vishwas.

Delhi had not seen communal violence in 30 years.

Our government will remain strict in the coming days. Uttar Pradesh is an example of how there are no communal clashes. The UP government took good steps. In Delhi, the situation got out of hand; but the government will ensure that no such incidents happen again.

For two months, the protests were peaceful and we did not say anything. Had we known that the situation would get out of hand, we could have taken steps like we did in Jammu and Kashmir.

How many Central forces are deployed to control the situation?

Thirty-seven battalions of the Central Reserve Police Force, the Border Security Force and the Sashastra Seema Bal have been deployed. The deployment was 13 battalions earlier. Why did we not deploy more personnel earlier? Because we had faith in people. But, after seeing the violence, more Central forces were sent. The protests against the CAA were unexpected. If the protest were against Article 370, triple talaq law or even the Supreme Court verdict on Ram Janmabhoomi, we could have expected it.

The clashes have brought back memories of anti-Sikh riots.

During the anti-Sikh riots, 3,000 to 4,000 people were killed. It was a massacre; the police were sitting and watching. This is a one-off incident that will not be repeated.

What steps are being taken by the home ministry to ensure that there is no repeat?

Two efforts are being made. First is to explain the CAA; to explain that there is no threat to any person of any religion, caste, class or creed. The state governments and chief ministers will explain that to the people. Home Minister Amit Shah has already held meetings with political parties in Delhi. The peace committees will have religious leaders, political leaders and elected representatives who will meet at police station and zonal levels.

There were reports that shoot-at-sight orders were given.

No, that is wrong. Section 144 has been imposed in some areas.

What was the need for National Security Adviser Ajit Doval to visit the affected areas?

The NSA is a responsible police officer. It is his right to talk to police officers and advice them. There is nothing wrong in him giving advice to the police force. He can visit any place; it is his duty and right.

Asaduddin Owaisi, MP, said Amit Shah should visit the affected people.

Because of tight security arrangements, it is not advisable for him to go. The police is doing its duty there and the situation is tense. A policeman was martyred. In such a situation, the police should not be disturbed while doing its duty. This is the reason why he did not go personally.

Did you have cooperation from the Aam Aadmi Party government in Delhi?

Yes, we are getting full cooperation from the Delhi government.

A section of the population feels that the CAA is discriminatory.

Some people are spreading misinformation against the government. They are creating a fear psychosis—that the government is just saying that there is nothing to fear, and that people will have to show papers later to prove that their father, grandfather and great-grandfather [were born in India] and get their birth certificates, and so on.

The people have got it wrong. They feel that, when the Union government is saying one thing, why are certain political parties, chief ministers and even former prime ministers talking against the CAA. They feel that there must be something in it. It is very unfortunate. All 130 crore Indians, whether they are Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Sikh or of any other faith, have nothing to fear from the CAA. There is not a single word, sentence or paragraph in the CAA that is against them.

Why has the government failed to counter the anti-CAA narrative?

As the saying goes, it is easier to wake up someone who is sleeping than it is to wake up one who is pretending to sleep. That is the situation today. Facts have been so distorted that there is little one can do.

The CAA is in the public domain. It was discussed in both houses of Parliament and passed by the Lok Sabha in January last year. The government did not have majority in the Rajya Sabha then, so it could not become an act. Now both the houses have passed it. I say to the media, political parties, protesters and students: If you find anything against Indian citizens, even one word, then we are ready to review the act. But I am confident there is none.

The CAA mentions all religions except Islam. Why?

The Indian Muslim is not affected by the law at all. The CAA means that the religious minorities in Pakistan and some other countries that are being persecuted can be brought under it. If it means entire Pakistan, then why is it a separate country?

Former prime minister Manmohan Singh had made this demand [for considering persecuted minorities for Indian citizenship] when he was leader of the opposition in the Rajya Sabha in 2003. When the Congress does it, it is right, and when the BJP does it, it is wrong?

Congress president Sonia Gandhi has asked for the resignation of Amit Shah.

The Congress has forgotten that there were riots and terrorist attacks throughout its tenure in power. Train blasts in Mumbai, Delhi serial blasts, terror attacks in Hyderabad and the 26/11 attacks have claimed the lives of thousands of people.

The anti-CAA protests and clashes are an internal issue. But, during the Congress regime, international elements came here and successfully carried out bomb blasts. How many times did Congress [ministers] resign?

During the past five and a half years of the Modi government, there have been no communal clashes anywhere in the country, and no bomb blasts or terror incidents. This has made some people unhappy—some who are outside the country and some who are within the country.