GHULAM NABI AZAD’S much-awaited autobiography, Azaad, is out. The leader, who severed his association with Congress some months back after having spent more than 50 years in the party, gives a detailed account of his time as a partyman and a government functionary. In an interview with THE WEEK, Azad touches upon his differences with the present generation of Gandhis and Rahul’s disqualification. Excerpts:
Q/ Your recollection of Indira Gandhi and Sanjay Gandhi in Azaad is emotional.
A/ I have been truthful and objective. Wherever I have felt Indira ji has done best, I have praised her. Wherever Rajiv Gandhi has done good, I have said so. But wherever Indira ji and Rajiv ji have gone wrong, I have written that also. Sanjay Gandhi, of course, there is not much. But he had a great role in my political career.
Similarly, the opposition. Mostly, I have opposed them. But there were good points also. I can only say that in spite of my opposing them, they were more generous than my Congress party. They (the Congress) became more critical of me after my leaving. But, the BJP became friendly and praised me for my work.
Q/ You have written about Prime Minister Narendra Modi and praised some of his qualities. Would you call him a friend?
A/ No, I would not call the prime minister a friend.... But, I would not call him an enemy either. My political learning took place under Indira Gandhi. Every year, I had Eid milan and Diwali milan. When I called Indira ji, I used to call Atal Bihari Vajpayee, too. She never asked me why I was calling them. The atmosphere has changed now. If you see somebody, they say you have become a BJP wallah.
In my seven years as leader of opposition, I ensured that every bill which was not in the interest of minorities or to the liking of my party failed. On each subject, I took on the government. In spite of my doing that, because the prime minister realised that I was leader of opposition, he did not use it against me.
Q/ How do you look at the opposition’s demand for a joint parliamentary committee on the Adani issue?
A/ I am not against a JPC. But the question is, knowing that the government will never do it, will you never allow Parliament to function? Opposition leaders should have this much of an understanding. The government is the happiest when Parliament does not function.
Q/ Does it pain you that your association with Congress ended on a bitter note with the present generation of Gandhis?
A/ I am not against the present generation. They are Rajiv ji’s children. I wish them well. But I would only say they must know political navigation. Instead of listening to those who have had no connect with the Congress, who had a lateral entry into the party, or are inexperienced... if the children come out of that, they will be better politicians.
Q/ You have written that the G-23's letter to then Congress president Sonia Gandhi was the beginning of the end.
A/ From time to time, we had told them to rectify the shortcomings in the Congress.
Where are the block level or district level elections? Where are the state level elections? They were all appointed. Where was your list of voters in the president's election? [Shashi] Tharoor asked for a list and was given one halfway through the election.
The working committee was left to the Congress president to appoint. (Central) Election committee was left to the Congress president to appoint.
If the basics are not right, you do one thousand yatras, nothing will change.
We all came to the conclusion that instead of talking to them individually, it is better that some senior people, which included six to seven former chief ministers and 14-15 union ministers, with no axe to grind, [write to the Congress chief].
Q/ At the Raipur plenary, elections to CWC were not held. But the G-23 leaders did not protest.
A/ Because they were reconciled. They said: 'Isi Naukri Mein Kaam Karenge'. I had the guts, I quit. The others said, they will work in the same conditions.
Q/ Do you feel the Bharat Jodo Yatra has had a positive impact?
A/ The question is how is the cake. Let us see. The taste of the cake lies in its eating. There should be some result.
Q/ How do you view the disqualification of Rahul Gandhi?
A/ Again, who is responsible for it? Remember the ordinance episode. I was a cabinet minister. We were not in favour of this law. We had a cabinet [meeting] and we did undo it. The president signed it. But who tore it?
Q/ The Congress says this is political vendetta.
A/ When it happens to Lalu, the Congress keeps quiet. When it happens to Azam Khan, the Congress keeps quiet. When it comes to ourselves, it is vendetta. When something wrong happens with anybody in the country, the Congress should raise its voice.
Q/ This development appears to have united opposition parties.
A/ While I am totally for opposition unity, it should be beneficial to both the parties. What will the Congress give Mamata ji in Bengal? Nothing. What can the Congress give Akhilesh? Nothing. Alliance is give and take. There are more than 400 seats where they cannot support or benefit each other.
Q/ Are you satisfied with the way your party is progressing?
A/ I am getting 10 times more support in my state than when I was in the Congress.
Q/ Many of your leaders have returned to the Congress.
A/ I have said publicly that any leader coming from the Congress is of no use. They work one hour a week. I work 18 hours a day. I do not want them to spoil my new generation, which works 20 hours.
Q/ Will the Adani issue resonate with the people?
A/ On the one side, the Congress says Adani is bad. On the other side, you are doing business with him in Rajasthan and Chhattisgarh. These are double standards.
Q/ Do you see any parallels with the Rafale issue that came up in 2019?
A/ Harping on one thing is a disadvantage. The Congress still does not understand the difference between voters and public. The voters are our poor people. The kisan is not bothered about Adani. Which kisan or mazdoor is bothered about Rafale? I told him (Rahul Gandhi), ‘you are going on the wrong path’. You need to speak the language of the mazdoor. He has not been able to understand what will fetch you votes.
Q/ Are you open to the idea of returning to the Congress?
A/ I say no to that. A big no. I do not want that tension again, which I had for the last few years.
I wish the Congress well. I wish the Gandhi family well. My respect, love and affection for the family will remain. I only want them to learn navigation. When we were at the helm, we tried to sail through. But when we had no say, then why get drowned unnecessarily?