Today it is our problem, tomorrow it can be yours,’’ said Ahmad Wali Massoud, quoting his late brother Ahmad Shah Massoud, the Afghan resistance leader who was known as the ‘Lion of Panjshir’. He was referring to the resurgent Taliban, which seems to be consolidating its hold over Afghanistan. It claimed on September 6 that it took control of the Panjshir Valley, killing key leader Fahim Dashty and several others. But the resistance movement—led by Ahmad Shah Massoud’s son, Ahmad Massoud—has declared that the fight will continue from the mountains.
Speaking exclusively to THE WEEK from an undisclosed location, Ahmad Wali Massoud said his brother had warned against the dangers of sheltering Osama bin Laden, which came horrifyingly true when the 9/11 attacks happened. “In the same way, today we are saying be careful of the Taliban,” he said. Massoud, who was Afghanistan’s ambassador to the United Kingdom, said regional countries, especially Pakistan, could play a crucial role in putting pressure on the Taliban and helping bring an inclusive government to power.
Excerpts from the interview:
Q. The resistance forces are witnessing military setbacks and killings.
A. It does not matter who is winning or losing on the military field. What really matters is that the resistance will stay alive. This is the resistance of the people who want to defend their own homeland, their lives and their family. There have been successive attacks on resistance forces in the Panjshir Valley. Panjshir has become the symbol of resistance. Each voice being raised against the Taliban is part of the resistance. The women of Afghanistan constitute half of the population and they are against the Taliban’s beliefs. So they are part of the resistance. The young generation, the civil society and the media are part of the resistance. Therefore, the resistance has already expanded a lot. Initially it was confined to one place, but now it is everywhere.
Q. How do you feel about the role played by the west, especially the US, in the present situation?
A. The way the US left Afghanistan after 20 years was very disappointing. Probably they thought they would exit in a fashion where their people would not be shot and they could find a way out, but that did not happen. A lot of people got caught within Afghanistan itself. But now there are voices coming from different corners of the western world in support of the resistance. But what everyone must realise is that the people of Afghanistan had put their trust in the west, but that trust was broken altogether.
Q. Do you think Pakistan will ever let anyone govern Kabul peacefully?
A. The role of Pakistan is very important as far as peace is concerned, because Pakistan is our neighbour, sharing a 2,400km-long border. So its role in peace is very crucial. Therefore, we made a trip to Pakistan and talked to the military and the political leadership. We asked them to use their influence on the Taliban to bring peace in Afghanistan. It will be best for both countries and the entire region. Let us hope that it brings some results. But it seems the Taliban may not listen to them and do something because what has happened in the Panjshir Valley means that the promises have not been kept.
Q. Are you ready to negotiate with the Taliban?
A. We have already said, ‘Let us talk.’ Before the Taliban came to Kabul, there were talks in Doha and in different places but it did not work out. This means that the Taliban mindset is not for peace. It is a warring faction, a theological group which is very extremist. These are not the people who can make a government. That is why the entire peace process of the past one and half years and the efforts of the international community have failed. The Taliban will continue with the war which is very unfortunate.
Q. The Taliban says it will respect women’s rights and is keen to form an inclusive government.
A. What we are really looking for is peace. So we have tried to work out a system through which the people can exercise their rights. There are more than 30 ethnic groups in Afghanistan. What kind of government or political system can we have to respond to these issues? Can we work out a system where we can have an understanding between all of them? The Taliban represents only one ethnicity. We can only hope and look forward to an inclusive government where all beliefs, ideas, dreams and desires of the people can come together. But we do not know whether the Taliban will accept it. The group has its own ideology and knows only one kind of structure to govern. The show by the Taliban of getting different people to support it is just to portray a different image. But we have not seen any change in its attitude.
Q. How do you see India’s efforts in securing peace in the region? Are you in touch with New Delhi?
A. I am not in close touch with Indian officials, but I know that all the regional countries, especially those countries who were involved in the development of Afghanistan, will continue to play an important role. For a long time, we have been saying that countries who are fighting each other should avoid making Afghanistan the theatre for their rivalry.
We want all countries, especially those in the region, to reach a consensus as far as Afghanistan is concerned because the process of peace has two pillars. One pillar is peace inside Afghanistan, where the different ethnicities must come to a consensus to make a system through which they can live with one another. The second pillar is the consensus among regional powers to come to some sort of consensus on Afghanistan.
Q. Will Taliban 2.0 be different and more successful than Taliban 1.0?
A. I do not see any difference. Do not forget that the Taliban is an ideological movement. When you have an ideological movement, you cannot really change yourself so easily. So you stick with your own ideology and when you stick with your own ideology, naturally you become very extreme and very fanatic. We have not seen any change in its practices.
Q. In your view, what caused the rushed exit of the US?
A. We really do not know; it does not have any logic. Some feel the US lost to terrorism, while some others say the reason was economic. Others attribute it to regional conflict and the fact that the US wants to start a new chapter. But it does not seem logical to leave everything once again to the Taliban after 20 years of investing in Afghanistan. The US sold out all the values it invested in the last 20 years—democracy, elections, women’s rights and educational rights. The US came to fight terrorism and after taking out the Taliban, it gave the country back to the Taliban.
Q. What is your message to the world community?
A. Do not forget that Afghanistan is very important as terrorism really takes root here. All countries need to ensure that it does not become a hub of terrorism. Twenty years ago, when my brother was alive, he gave a message to the world when he came to Europe. “Terrorism is our problem today, but tommorrow it could be yours,” he said. Nobody listened, and look what happened in 20 years. In the same way, today we are saying that the world should be careful of the Taliban. It has got lots of terrorist groups within itself and they are all interconnected. We need to put pressure on the Taliban and ensure that there is an inclusive government in Afghanistan. If the Taliban goes to war, then the world will have to stand against it, not because we are saying it, but because it is against the universal beliefs and ideals of freedom of speech, democracy, human rights and women’s rights.
Q. What is your biggest worry?
A. If the Taliban is allowed to take root in Afghanistan again along with terrorist groups from across the world, it will make Afghanistan a hub of terrorism and we won’t know how many people in how many countries will be affected. That is something everyone needs to think about. Of course, we have lost a lot of people, and we have already lost Afghanistan, but what about regional countries and extra-regional countries? The world still needs to worry about it and take action to curb the spread of terrorism and extremism.
Q. How do you see the relationship between Al Qaeda and the Taliban after 20 years of the 9/11 attacks?
A. That relationship is unbreakable. The Taliban has not broken its ties with terrorist groups, including Al Qaeda. The world knows that the Taliban cannot get rid of them and it is also not willing to get rid of them. The Taliban cannot get rid of them because they are an integral part of the whole Taliban movement. So they are there to stay and will continue to grow. The terrorist groups which have come to Afghanistan are there not to create trouble within Afghanistan, they are there to use Afghanistan to spread their extremist ideas and terrorism to other parts of the world.