Rajnath Singh | Arvind Jain
Union Home Minister Rajnath Singh has been mentioned as a likely consensus candidate for prime ministership if the BJP misses the majority mark in the Lok Sabha polls. A man of measured words, he is known for his ability to take everyone along. The former BJP president has completed 51 election campaign meetings and is confident of hitting a century. In an exclusive interview with THE WEEK, Singh says the BJP will win 73 seats in Uttar Pradesh.
He defends the candidature of Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur in Bhopal, bats for abrogation of Article 35A of the Constitution saying it has done more harm than good to Jammu and Kashmir and discloses that he did not want the BJP to form a coalition government there in 2015. Excerpts:
BJP has made a shift from development plank of 2014 to ultranationalism in 2019. Why?
Development and good governance are our election issues even today. But national pride is important for citizens. If our soldiers have done good work, we must appreciate it. To term it ultranationalism is not correct.
Nyay (justice) or Gaurav (pride)—which resonates more with people?
The Congress party's NYAY scheme is a fraud. They used to say 'garibi hatao' (eradicate poverty), but garibi was never eradicated. In the last four-five years, under Prime Minister Narendra Modi's leadership, more than 7.5 crore people have come out of the poverty index, according to the American think tank Brookings Institution. We are sending gas cylinders to every household and giving everyone their own house.
Polling is underway in Uttar Pradesh, your home state where you are contesting. Is the mahagathbandhan a worry?
The Congress is fighting separately so where is the gathbandhan? The SP-BSP [Samajwadi Party and Bahujan Samaj Party] alliance is not credible. People know that they may or may not be together tomorrow. The BJP's target is winning 73 seats in UP. It should not be 72 but it can definitely be 74.
Priyanka Gandhi's entry in UP can split Hindu votes.
Priyanka has been in politics for some time, working for her family members. She is not a new entrant. As far as Hindu votes are concerned, the Congress can get 2 to 4 per cent of the votes there.
Rahul Gandhi is contesting from two seats this time.
The Congress fears it will lose Amethi. This was its permanent seat. That is why I say Rahul Gandhi ran away from Amethi out of fear.
The state level anti-incumbency for the BJP has increased if you go by assembly elections in Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh.
In election debates in Chhattisgarh, people were saying they would vote differently in the state polls and Lok Sabha polls, where they would vote for Modi. The performance of the state governments is not important.
You, as party president, helped Shatrughan Sinha get BJP ticket in 2014. Now his wife, Poonam Sinha, is your opponent in Lucknow. How do you view this turning of the tables?
She is welcome. The election will be held with shaleenta (civility) and respect.
You talk of civility at a time when all political parties, including yours, are using abusive words against rivals.
What can be a worse abuse than calling the prime minister a chor (thief). I feel this has never happened in the history of this country. Prime minister and president are not just individuals; they are institutions. One can criticise but such language is deplorable.
In 1989, there was a slogan, 'Gali gali mein shor hai, Rajiv Gandhi chor hai'. As a senior leader, what is your advice?
I feel all this should not happen. I can't even think it. I tell people that we must not lower the discourse.
Sadhvi Pragya Thakur, accused in the 2008 Malegaon terror attack case, has been given a ticket by your party. Is it correct?
No offence has been proved against Sadhvi Pragya till now. How can we call her an accused or treat her like that? It was the party's decision to give her a ticket.
But she hasn't also been acquitted. Elections are also about perception.
The people living there believe that Sadhvi Pragya is innocent and that she was not at all involved in any crime. I don't think there is any perception problem for the BJP.
It is said that it was not the BJP's central election committee's decision.
The decision of the BJP president is final.
It was the BJP government in Madhya Pradesh that first registered the terror case against her.
I don't know the history of the case. But as far as I know, no offence is established against her. That is the information I have and I don't wish to say more.
There is outrage in the Indian Police Service after Sadhvi Pragya said Mumbai Anti-Terrorist Squad chief Hemant Karkare, who died in action during the 26/11 attacks, was killed due to his karma. What do you have to say?
She should not have said that. She has apologised for it. No one will endorse it. The party must have spoken to her. I have addressed the issues raised by the IPS and she has tendered an apology and withdrawn her statement.
Is there any substance in her allegations of torture by Karkare?
If Sadhvi Pragya is saying so, I have no reason to disbelieve her. Something must have happened; otherwise why will she get so emotional that she starts crying? She would know more about it.
As home minister, were you made aware of such charges?
Any matter would have been shared with the National Investigation Agency. I do not know about it. The NIA is an autonomous agency and does its work independently.
What if Sadhvi Pragya is proved guilty tomorrow?
Whatever decision taken by the party will be final.
Wasn't the Pulwama terror attack a result of an intelligence failure or some gaps in the security set-up?
The entire matter is being thoroughly investigated and I think we should wait for it. In a big country like this in any part of the world, incidents happen but to call each incident an intelligence failure is not correct. I think it's premature to comment on anything till we get a complete report.
Could you explain why India failed to say how many terrorists were killed in the Indian Air Force strike in Balakot?
Only Pakistan can say this. Whatever operation took place was on the basis of credible intelligence input. What is important is that all precautions were taken in the operation that there was no damage to innocent citizens of Pakistan. Such was the precision of the operation and our forces are satisfied with it.
Former Army chiefs and veterans don't want the Army to be politicised.
We firmly believe there should be no politicisation of the armed forces. We are not doing it and we will not do it in future also. But if our armed forces have done some good work then we must appreciate it.
When will India resume talks with Pakistan?
This is a question for Pakistan to answer. I have said that it must act against terrorists and terror organisations. Terror and dialogue can never go together. Tokenism has happened several times in the past. Why can't they put [Lashkar-e-Taiba founder] Hafiz Saeed behind bars and make him face trial? Why don't they act against terrorists responsible for all the terror attacks in India?
Are you personally in favour of repealing Article 370 and Article 35A in Jammu and Kashmir?
If they are demanding that there should be two prime ministers in this country, there will be no other alternative left. That is the only way then. How can anyone tolerate this?
You are the home minister and also the manifesto committee chairman in J&K. Are you talking of a modified Article 35A or complete abrogation?
It is not about a via media. I feel it should go completely. We believe there has been no benefit from Article 35A and that it has only been damaging for the state.
PDP president Mehbooba Mufti has said that they need to re-think whether joining the Indian Union was a right decision for people of J&K.
I don't take her statements seriously. J&K is an integral part of India. It was always an integral part and will remain to be so.
It has been more than a year since J&K interlocutor Dineshwar Sharma was appointed by the Centre. What is the outcome?
We will see, after elections, what has to be done. We have said we will talk to whoever wants to talk to us. We did not put any restrictions. But no one has come forward.
Has any top Hurriyat leader come forward to talk?
No. I had said that whoever is keen can talk to me directly. Then I appointed an interlocutor but they did not even engage with him. They are responsible for any deadlock today. A few forces in J&K are working at the behest of Pakistan and they are getting help from Pakistan. We cannot allow this to continue.
How do you address alienation in the youth in J&K?
No, I don't agree there is alienation in the average Kashmiri youth. It is only a particular section which has been made to feel alienated in a planned and deliberate effort to create alienation. The average Kashmiri wants peace and wants to stay with India.
There is talk that either you or Nitin Gadkari could be the consensus PM candidate, if the BJP fall short of the majority mark in the elections.
It is a hypothetical question. How can I answer that? I can't even think of it. We will get a clear majority and in all circumstances Narendra Modi will be prime minister.
If the party asks you, will you refuse?
There is no question. Whoever is projected as the prime minister will become the prime minister. He is the leader.
If the BJP comes back to power, how do you see your new role in government or party?
Whatever party decides, I will accept that. It is not a big issue, I have never hankered for anything in my life and my party knows that. Whatever God gives is a blessing. A man does not become big by the position he holds. Till you are in the chair, you feel you are a very big person. But all human beings are equal.
In last five years, was your role as home minister overshadowed by the prominence of the National Security Adviser?
Can anyone recount even one such incident to say this is true? There are some people who may be running something in a planned way, like a few officers under some director. But the work has to done and there are procedures to do it. There are regular meetings with the NSA, home secretary, directors of the Intelligence Bureau and R&AW, Joint Intelligence Committee chairman. These are held 3-4 times a week. The final decision on any matter is taken by the home minister but the implementation has to be through the officers. People can't expect the home minister to do all the work and implement decisions himself. All our officers have performed very well, whether it is the NSA, HS, DIB and R&AW chief. We have had success on all fronts, from tackling left-wing extremism to northeast insurgency. No big terror incident has taken place within the country and the credit goes to the security forces and the agencies.
Were you consulted before the BJP quit the coalition government in J&K?
Yes, of course. I was against the formation of a coalition government from the beginning as I felt that it will never work. But the Peoples Democratic Party got the mandate as the single largest party and the second largest was the BJP. When they were unable to form the government, there was a thought that let us do an experiment. But that experiment was not successful.
Why do you think the southern states are not as much attracted to the BJP as the northern states, despite the strong presence of the RSS in the southern states?
Yes, it is not there as much as it should be. It will take time. Earlier, the BJP presence was not as strong in West Bengal and Odisha also. Now its strong in both states. Before that Karnataka was not its stronghold but in 2008 the BJP formed its first government in a southern state. I believe that our vote percentage will increase in the southern states this time.
The regional parties still dominate the political space with 150 seats with them across the country. What is the progress in the BJP's vision that the national party should be dominating in all states?
As the relevance of the Congress deteriorated in these places, the influence of regional parties increased. But now you see that the BJP is rising. Not in place of the Congress, but as an alternative. We have been successful in winning the confidence of people of the country. There was a time when regional parties dominated Haryana, but its no longer true. There are some places in the south where regional parties still hold sway. We have no objection to regional political parties also doing work.
Do you think the BJP can ever win the state of Kerala?
Yes, it will happen one day. It may be possible that we will open our account there. Last time, we opened our account in the Assembly elections, this time we may get seats in the Lok Sabha polls.
Do you the think the BJP in Tamil Nadu has what it takes to fill the leadership void left by the deaths of two formidable leaders, Jayalalithaa and Karunanidhi? Why hasn't the BJP taken root in Tamil Nadu?
It is our effort to establish our presence there. The party is trying and its vote percentage has increased. Earlier we did not have candidates fighting elections from there but now that is not an issue.
Why has Special Status been denied to Andhra Pradesh?
We had said that whatever special assistance is required from the Central government after the bifurcation of the state, will be provided. We have provided all possible assistance to the state and whatever is needed we will continue to give. Just the name of special status has not been given to it. In a federal structure, we will continue to assist the states but to give special status to one state and not to others is not correct. Why should we deny special status to Bihar, Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh or Telangana?
Mamata Banerjee has hinted at her ambitions to become prime minister. Do you think she is capable?
It is daydreaming. It is not something that is real to be discussed.
Is eastern India—West Bengal and Odisha—turning the BJP way, just as the northeastern India had done?
Yes, why not? The BJP is doing very well in Odisha. Anything can happen there. At present, we are performing very well in Odisha and West Bengal. In the northeast, we have formed the government in the biggest state of Assam.
It seems there were not enough consultations over the Citizenship Amendment bill which can now damage the BJP's prospects in the northeast?
No, I don't think so. We spoke to many people. There are some who are opposing it for political reasons but there is no huge impact in the northeast and the election results will make it clear.
What is the fate of the proposed Naga peace accord?
The work is going on. It is moving in the right direction and we will see after elections.
The opposition alliance against the BJP is potent at the national level. What are the chances of the gathbandhan in the election?
Where is the gathbandan? The alliance did not happen with the TMC and TDP. Even the SP-BSP alliance did not happen at the national level. The Congress and DMK alliance is the only one that has happened. So, there is no such thing as gathbandan left.
The BJP allies have deserted you.
Other than TDP, all our alliances are intact. In fact our allies have increased. So many northeast political parties have also joined us.
Opposition leaders are accusing the BJP of giving ICE treatment (Income Tax, CBI, Enforcement Directorate) to its political opponents in all states. The charge is that the BJP is playing vindictive politics.
We can never think of a vindictive approach. The agencies are doing their own work and there are never any instructions given to them from the government. They are doing their regular work as autonomous organisations.
The elections to the Lok Sabha and four assemblies are being held in five phases because of various concerns. How practical is the BJP's "One India, One Election" plan?
We want it to happen and it is our stand that it may be possible one day. We are trying to build political consensus. Yes, I feel it is practical and it can be done.
Atalji's Bharat or Modi's Bharat? Has the BJP evolved into a newer BJP or a different BJP?
Bharat is Bharat. Neither Atalji's nor Modi's. The BJP's ideology is the same, there is no change in that. The programmes keep changing but the basic ideology remains the same.
The BJP is accused of polarising the country.
I firmly believe that polarisation should never happen. Some political parties like the Congress, BSP and SP are doing it. They are trying to instil a sense of fear in minorities to get their votes. But as far as the BJP is concerned, we have created a sense of confidence in the minorities. We are getting votes of minorities as well.
How many seats will the BJP win in the 2019 Lok Sabha polls?
Not one less than last time.