Interview/ Mahbouba Seraj, Afghan women’s rights activist
Mahbouba Seraj, niece of King Amanullah Khan, was 55 when she created the radio show ‘Our Beloved Afghanistan’ in 2003. It was an exciting time as women would gather to discuss corruption, jobs, higher education, press freedom and, of course, war and peace.
More than two decades later, a weary Seraj sat in Kabul and watched Taliban foreign minister Mawlawi Amir Khan Muttaqi telling the media in Delhi that no one’s rights, men or women, should ever be denied.
What angers her is Taliban’s exclusion of women in the social and political landscape of Afghanistan—insiders reveal that secret online schools are desperately trying to educate girls in the hope of a better future. And while women’s voices are frowned upon, the men who support them have also been thrown in jail for their “activism”.
Matiullah Wesa, founder of the non-profit Pen Path, spent seven months in jail in 2023 and lives under threat of being persecuted again. His organisation has worked under the radar to educate 7,300 girls in rural and far-flung districts, and, notably, it has also been helped by some Pashtun chieftains who want to blunt the narrative that the tribes resist women’s education.
“Afghanistan has a long and rich history of women in leadership and public life,” says Wesa. “In reality, Afghan culture, history and Islam support the active inclusion of women in society. Afghans not only respect their own women, but also support the rights and dignity of women worldwide.”
Seraj attributes these cycles of inclusion and exclusion to the failure of not just the Taliban, but of the international community that has let down Afghan women in its race for military, diplomatic and narrow political gains.
The way forward is tricky, and Delhi should engage but remain watchful. “As a white-haired Afghan woman, I don’t want any kind of involvement with any government with their soldiers on the ground in Afghanistan. We really are okay as far as giving an answer to Pakistan (there have been recent clashes). Taliban can do that. They are capable people as far as that is concerned.
“But at the same time, it’s like standing on a big branch of a tree and taking a hammer and breaking that branch. When it breaks, everybody’s going to fall.” Excerpts from an interview:
Q/ India is looking to upgrade relations with the Taliban government. What are your concerns?
A/ I really don’t want another disagreement in the world over Afghanistan. It always starts for some reason that has little to do with our country. India often steps back whenever the Taliban are around. But this isn’t really about Afghanistan alone; it’s about how Pakistan treats Afghanistan and how Afghanistan interacts with them. That’s where India comes in.
I don’t look at these things with an open heart because I know there are hidden games at play. And honestly, that’s annoying. The world thinks we, the people, won’t understand, but we do. Everyone—the US, Europe, Russia, China, Pakistan—is playing games. If they could just stop and be honest, it would benefit everyone.
I am happy our relationship with India is back on track. Our friendship goes back centuries. Their support for education, universities and hospitals makes life easier for Afghans. But at the same time, there have been instances that are worrisome. When Muttaqi visited India, no women journalists were allowed to meet him [at the briefing] the first time.
It was heartening to hear that they were included the next time—that gives me hope. But will things change? No. These conversations can happen only outside Afghanistan, like in India. Back home, our heads would be chopped off for saying these things. The reality for women is devastating. Girls are allowed to study only up to primary school, and beyond that, education simply ends. Even short-term vocational programmes in nursing, midwifery or community health care have been completely stopped since the Taliban returned to power.
In the past four years, they’ve issued around 157 edicts restricting women’s lives. It’s unbelievable. Women can’t step outside their homes freely, can’t visit parks, and now, even going to a restaurant with family has been banned. Even their voices are not allowed to be heard. Not on the radio, not on television.
And India, a country known for women who have always stood up for equality and human rights, is now engaging with these people. Why? There’s such double-speak in foreign policy. They say it’s not deliberate exclusion, that they respect women’s rights. But that’s a lie. The official who first said women journalists shouldn’t enter, he was the one telling the truth. Everyone else is pretending.
Q/ India has insisted on a truly inclusive government in Afghanistan. How does that fit within the Taliban’s current approach?
A/ A “step forward” today doesn’t mean the same as before. Acceptance of the Taliban is tricky. The lack of inclusivity, particularly of women, is unacceptable. Indian women are rightfully upset; they will raise their voices, and they should. How can a government be inclusive if 50 per cent of the population is excluded?
Q/ How do you see Pakistan’s role with the Taliban, and what about the influence of the US?
A/ I don’t want to speculate, but recent events show interference. A bomb two nights ago came from Pakistan. Does this mean anyone can just send bombs now? This isn’t acceptable. The US is involved, too, trying to show the Taliban they can align with India and ignore Pakistan. But agreements between countries should be country-to-country. India should recognise its responsibility as a powerful nation. Their actions affect the whole region. India must engage with a wide spectrum of Afghan voices, not just the Taliban or the previous government. We have people who love this country and are working for it; India should talk to them, too.
Q/ How difficult is it to raise issues like secondary education for women?
A/ Completely impossible. We’re losing ground in every sense, and the international community ignores this. Everyone talks, but talk is cheap. Atrocities in Afghanistan didn’t start with the Taliban; they’ve been ongoing since 1978 (Afghan War).
Q/ Could India’s renewed engagement with the Taliban open doors for trade or development?
A/ There is a silver lining, yes, but it’s fragile. India must act with open eyes and consider the potential backlash. The animosity between India and Pakistan, and Pakistan and Afghanistan, is long-standing. Poor Afghans always pay the price.
Many Afghans still don’t accept the Taliban. Isolation strategies hurt ordinary people more than the Taliban.
Q/ How are women coping in daily life?
A/ We live in darkness. Decisions are made by a few hundred for 40 million. It’s suffocating. Women are busy supporting their families. Generations are losing direction, opportunities and hope. Social infrastructure is collapsing. There are heavy controls on communication.
Q/ You have been accused by a section of women of being pro-Taliban.
A/ These women dislike me for insisting on speaking about what’s really happening in Afghanistan. I don’t deny the atrocities, but I believe they’ve been committed by many sides. During the Mujahideen era, after the Russian invasion, the treatment of women was terrible. Under Ashraf Ghani’s presidency, too, corruption and abuse of power were rampant. I spoke against those governments, too, but people forget that.
In 20 years, Taliban stopped a huge army without boots, just with slippers on mountains. That’s power. But power should be used for the country’s benefit. And now, after the deal with the US was signed in Doha, we’re stuck.
And yes, I was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2023, and again this year. I didn’t win, of course, but the smear campaign has been terrible. The truth is, Afghanistan has suffered under every regime. The poor country, the poor women, are paying the price.