Interview / Amish Tripathi, author
The combination of politics, history and literature is never uninteresting, which can also be said about the books by best-selling author Amish Tripathi. Known for making mythology cool and accessible with his Shiva trilogy and Ram Chandra series, and bringing ignored historical figures to the spotlight, such as with his Legend of Suheldev, Amish is back with his latest: The Chola Tigers: Avengers of Somnath. His work, although focusing on mythology and history, exhibits a contemporary flavour, and he now shifts the focus down south, to the great Cholas of Tamil Nadu.
Excerpts from an interview:
Q/ The Chola Tigers opens with the destruction of the Somnath Temple in Gujarat by Mahmud of Ghazni—an event that also forms the backdrop of your earlier work, Legend of Suheldev. What draws you repeatedly to this moment in history, which occurred in 1026 AD?
A/ If you see north India, practically no ancient temples remain. You will find ruins, unlike in the south where you do find temples. Similarly, you find no ancient universities in the north, as all of them—from Takshashila to Vikramshila—were destroyed.
Q/ This was the result of thousands of years of brutal invasions.
A/ American historian Will Durant described the “Islamic conquest of India” as “probably the bloodiest story in history”. And we call them the Delhi sultans and the Mughals, but they were Turks from Central Asia.
In fact, the Central Asian tribes invaded regions across the Eurasian peninsula, as a result of which practically every ancient culture in these regions died. You find no ancient cultures alive there. Where are the Zoroastrians from Persia (present-day Iran) living? It is here, in India.
But India survived!
So, while there were a series of brutal invasions, there were also stories of heroic resistance. In fact, we are the only ancient culture that fought those invaders and survived. And, hence, this story of the last 1,000 years hasn’t been properly told, because in our history books, it is either that our ancestors were cowardly, or they were disunited. We basically kept losing.
However, stories need to be told of the heroic resistance, too. And in that resistance, the destruction of Somnath ji was a critical turning point.
Temples had been destroyed before as well, from the 7th century onwards, such as the Sun Temple in Multan, when the brutal invasions began. However, within 100-200 years of the destruction of the Somnath Temple, perhaps every temple and university across northern India was destroyed.
Q/ But Central Asian tribes had invaded parts of India earlier, too, such as the Kushans in the 1st century.
A/ Central Asia, prior to the 8th century, was very Indic. Many of them were Buddhists, including the Kushans. They didn’t do that much destruction. Rather, they spent to expand universities and organised religious sangams (councils). So they were invaders who became Indians. One can argue that they were a part of the larger Indosphere in those days.
Q/ But didn’t the Mughals get Indianised, too?
A/ I think one of the best ways to look at people is through their self-description. The Kushans self-identified as people of the larger Indosphere. They shifted their capital here. But with the Mughals, we call them that; they never called themselves Mughals. And we see Babur as the founder of the Mughal dynasty. But do you know who they see as their founder? It is Timur. They see themselves as Timurid, and we should respect their self-identification. And it is not that they didn’t build things here, but so did the British. So it is not essentially a Hindu-Muslim issue, but an Indian-foreigner one.
Q/ In your latest book, you take the focus down south—to the Cholas. Why them?
A/ I am a storyteller, and their’s is a great story. It is also linked to Legend of Suheldev and Somnath ji. Hence, it fits into all the criteria I wanted to cover.
But also, the Cholas haven’t gotten a fair share in our history books, and only get like a tick-mark mention. And it is the case not only with the south, but west, east and central India, too—any empire in the past 1,000-1,500 years that didn’t cover the Khyber to Agra region is relatively ignored. It is true for the Rashtrakutas, the Hoysalas, the Senas, Ahoms, Gurjara-Pratiharas and the Paramaras. Again, it is not a Hindu-Muslim issue, as the Adil Shahis were also ignored. It has to do with our obsession with Delhi.
Q/ And where do you think this obsession with Delhi stems from?
A/ I don’t know the reason. Maybe it was because of the British, or the Marxist historians who came after them, who were based in Delhi, and so they thought it was all about Delhi. And I am not denying its importance, but it is not the only place. And we wouldn’t have the complete understanding of our land if we excessively focus on Khyber to Agra, and that the only thing that happened to India was that we were only waiting for the next invasion. So these things need to be balanced, and I am making attempts with my book. But it needs to be updated in our history textbooks as well.
Q/ What are your thoughts on the politicisation of history, on the omissions and additions? Can history ever remain immune to politics?
A/ No, it can never be. And in democracies, it is not only history but every subject is politicised. And we can’t blame politicians for doing what politicians do. It is their job to garner support and win votes. It is our job to be mature and know what’s better for our land as a culture.
We also have to look at what would help India today. Wouldn’t it be good if we find commonalities between north-south and east-west? Isn’t it good to bring balance to our understanding of history, to question why our Marxist historians didn’t call the British invasion the Christian invasion, but they called Turkic invasion the Islamic invasion? It appears to be a mischievous nomenclature. And the Turks were foreigners, and the Indian Muslims were as oppressed as the Hindus. So what was essentially an Indian-foreigner issue has been converted into a Hindu-Muslim issue, which is not good for our country.
Q/ But amid contemporary global issues such as famine, climate change and crimes, where does the study of history stand?
A/ It is history and culture that define a community. And yes, there are global issues, but it is the nations who are the actors in them. Thus, we have to look at the culture and the cultural issues that drive the nation, which then becomes the mood and define how a country would behave.
Q/ How do you decide the subject for your book? Is it also inspired by what’s happening? For example, we see an increasing focus on the south, such as when the new Parliament building was inaugurated in 2023, Prime Minister Narendra Modi installed the Sengol.
A/ I think it is good we are making concerted efforts to find commonalities. And it is not the south only which is getting more attention. It applies to India’s northeast as well. Our history books at least mentioned the south, but they just ignored the northeast.
Q/ You write both mythological and historical fiction. These days we hear about how the first plane flew in India—the Pushpak Viman in the Ramayan. Shouldn’t we be careful about our distinction between mythology and fiction?
A/ Wrong knowledge prospers in an atmosphere of ignorance. If you had knowledge, you wouldn’t believe that. We should rather teach our real achievements.
Q/ Over the past few years, we are seeing an attempt to rewrite India’s past, such as William Dalrymple’s The Golden Road. Where is this reaction coming from?
A/ The elite who took over once the British left were the anglicised elite, who had probably internalised the British conceptions about India. But now, a new group is rising that has learnt English, who come from the real India and not the Lutyens Delhi. And they can argue with the west and the westernised audience as well. They are extremely comfortable in their own language, but English as well. It is the rise of this group that is changing the conversation.
Q/ Given the subjects you write on, and since we live in times where we have censorship on one hand and cancel culture on the other, you appear to have successfully evaded controversies.
A/ I think it is because I read books of both sides, which automatically makes me centred and my
views reasonable.
Q/ We see several recent films, especially those that are essentially historical fiction, such as Chhava, eliciting strong public reaction. As a writer, how do you ensure your work isn’t misused or misinterpreted to go after the marginalised or stereotype a state?
A/ Being a centrist, I must respect both sides to exist. However, the problem with extremes on either sides is that while the left extreme only wants to focus on the caste cleavage, the right focuses on religious cleavage, and regrettably they both deepen those fractures. Hence, the best argument can be possibly put forth by centrists, who can speak for both, and try to bring people together.
Having said that, I am a liberal Hindu, but you cannot expect me to defend Aurangzeb to prove my liberalism. That’s like a Jew being asked to defend Hitler.
Q/ But if we keep looking towards the past, can we ever move forward?
A/ Unless you resolve historical issues, they keep coming up.
Q/ We hear all the time about your books being adapted into films, the most recent being Legend of Suheldev, starring Ram Charan. What’s happening there?
A/ That was a rumour. Every book has its own fate, and it will get converted into a film when it is meant to. And you also have to look at it from a commercial perspective. A book or a theatrical play is fundamentally different from a movie. A movie makes most of its money in the first week, whereas books and plays keep selling week after week for years. That’s how they become best-sellers. And what has happened with some books is that when a bad movie comes out, the literary property also collapses.
THE CHOLA TIGERS: AVENGERS OF SOMNATH
Author: Amish Tripathi
Publisher: Harper Fiction India
pages 480; price Rs499